Bharatpedia:Talk page guidelines

"BP:TALK" redirects here. For general information about talk pages, see Help:Talk pages. For user talk pages guidelines, see Bharatpedia:User pages. For portal for general discussing, see Bharatpedia:Village pump.

The purpose of a talk page (accessible via the "Talk" tab) is to provide space for editors to discuss editing that page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject. While talk pages in other namespaces (such as user talk pages) may be used for broader discussion and communication between editors, article talk pages should be used solely for discussing the improvement of that article.

The names of talk pages associated with articles begin with Talk:. For example, the talk page for the article Australia is named Talk:Australia.

The guidelines below reinforce the prime values of talk pages: communication, courtesy, and consideration. They apply not only to article discussion pages but everywhere editors interact, such as deletion discussions and noticeboards.

Central points

Maintain Bharatpedia policy

There is reasonable allowance for speculation, suggestion, and personal knowledge on talk pages, with a view to prompting further investigation, but it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Pay particular attention to Bharatpedia:Biographies of living persons, which applies to talk pages as well as to articles: "Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Bharatpedia page."

Creating talk pages

See also: Bharatpedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome templates

Talk pages are generally created by clicking a red "Talk" tab and creating the page, like any other page.

Do not create an empty talk page simply so that one will exist for future use. There is no need to add discussion warning templates to every talk page, or even to every talk page that contains a discussion.

How to use article talk pages

Although this section is specific to article talk pages, many of the general themes apply to all discussion pages that are used for collaboration.

• <span id="Communicate: If in doubt, make the extra effort so that other people understand you. Being friendly is a great help. It is always a good idea to explain your views; it is less helpful for you to voice an opinion on something but not explain why you hold it. Explaining why you have a certain opinion helps to demonstrate its validity to others and reach consensus.">Communicate: If in doubt, make the extra effort so that other people understand you. Being friendly is a great help. It is always a good idea to explain your views; it is less helpful for you to voice an opinion on something but not explain why you hold it. Explaining why you have a certain opinion helps to demonstrate its validity to others and reach consensus.
• <span id="Stay on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archiving or removal.">Stay on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archiving or removal.
• No meta: Extended meta-discussions about editing belong on noticeboards, in Bharatpedia-talk, or in User-talk namespaces, not in Article-talk namespace.
• Be positive: Article talk pages should be used to discuss ways to improve an article; not to criticize, pick apart, or vent about the current status of an article or its subject. This is especially true on the talk pages of biographies of living people. However, if you're not sure how to fix something, feel free to draw attention to this and ask for suggestions.
• Be polite: Article talk pages are at the end of the day civil discussions between users who have lives outside of Bharatpedia, that influences their behaviors and manners. In serious discussions it is key to remain calm, respectful and patient with the other user. If a fallacy (see list of fallacies) is noticed when debating Bharatpedia's general guidelines, remain civil and above all do not use this to anger the other user. Respectful arguments are relaxing!
• Stay objective: Talk pages are not a place for editors to argue their personal point of view about a controversial issue. They are a place to discuss how the points of view of reliable sources should be included in the article, so that the end result is neutral. The best way to present a case is to find properly referenced material.
• Deal with facts: The talk page is the ideal place for issues relating to verification, such as asking for help finding sources, discussing conflicts or inconsistencies among sources, and examining the reliability of references. Asking for a verifiable reference supporting a statement is often better than arguing against it.
• Share material: The talk page can be used to "park" material removed from the article due to verification or other concerns, while references are sought or concerns discussed. New material can be prepared on the talk page until it is ready to be put into the article; this is an especially good idea if the new material (or topic as a whole) is controversial.
• Discuss edits: The talk page is particularly useful to talk about edits. If one of your edits has been reverted, and you change it back again, it is good practice to leave an explanation on the talk page and a note in the edit summary that you have done so. The talk page is also the place to ask about another editor's changes. If someone questions one of your edits, make sure you reply with a full, helpful rationale.
• Make proposals: Proposals for improving the article can be put forward for discussion by other editors. Such proposals might include changes to specific points, page moves, mergers or making a section of a long article into a separate article.

Good practices for talk pages

These guidelines apply specifically to discussion pages which are used for collaboration, which includes just about all talk pages other than user talk pages. The application of these guidelines to user talk pages should be governed by common sense and should not supersede guidelines and policies specific to those pages.

• Check whether there's already a discussion on the same topic. Duplicate discussions (on a single page, or on multiple pages) are confusing and time-wasting, and may be interpreted as forum shopping. If the subject is a controversial or popular one, consider checking the talk-page archives before opening a new thread. (Many talk pages have a Search archives box near the top.)
• Read before commenting: Familiarizing yourself with a discussion before participating makes it easier to build consensus.
• Comment on content, not on the contributor or It's the edits that matter, not the editor: Keep the discussions focused on the topic of the talk page, rather than on the editors participating.
• Use English: This is the Bharatpedia; discussions should normally be conducted in English. If using another language is unavoidable, try to provide a translation, or get help at Bharatpedia:Embassy. Do not expect readers to translate your content themselves, not even when modern browsers have machine translation built-in.
• <span id="Be concise: Long posts risk being ignored or misunderstood. Talk pages with a good signal-to-noise ratio tend to attract continued participation. If you really need to make a detailed, point-by-point post, see below for tips.">Be concise: Long posts risk being ignored or misunderstood. Talk pages with a good signal-to-noise ratio tend to attract continued participation. If you really need to make a detailed, point-by-point post, see below for tips.
• Keep discussions focused: Discussions naturally should finalize by agreement, not by exhaustion.
• Avoid repeating your posts: Your fellow editors can read your prior posts, so repeating them wastes time and space and may be considered bludgeoning the discussion. In surveys, don't make multiple bolded !votes.
• Avoid starting similar discussions on multiple pages, which fragments discussion. Instead, start the discussion in one location and, if appropriate, advertise it elsewhere by linking to it; templates such as {{subst:Please see}} and {{For your information}} are available for this. If you find a fragmented discussion, consider closing the old discussion or moving all posts to one location and linking from the old locations to the new one. State clearly in your edit summaries and on talk pages what you have done and why. (See Bharatpedia:Content forking/Internal § Discussion forks.)
• Do not bite the newcomers: If someone does something against custom, assume it was an unwitting mistake; gently point out their mistake (referencing relevant policies and guidelines) and suggest a better approach.
• Link abbreviations: To assist newbies, consider linking to Bharatpedia abbreviations and terms of art when they first appear in a thread.
• <span id="Avoid excessive emphasis: ALL CAPS and enlarged fonts may be considered shouting and are rarely appropriate. Bolding may be used to highlight key words or phrases but should be used judiciously. Italics are often used for emphasis or clarity but should be avoided for long passages. Exclamation marks similarly should be used judiciously. Overuse of emphasis can undermine its impact! If adding emphasis to quoted text, say so.">Avoid excessive emphasis: ALL CAPS and enlarged fonts may be considered shouting and are rarely appropriate. Bolding may be used to highlight key words or phrases but should be used judiciously. Italics are often used for emphasis or clarity but should be avoided for long passages. Exclamation marks similarly should be used judiciously. Overuse of emphasis can undermine its impact! If adding emphasis to quoted text, say so.
• Keep the layout clear: Use standard formatting and threading. If you include references, add {{reflist-talk}} or {{sources-talk}} after your comment, to keep citations within your thread. See Talk page layout.
• <span id="Use separate subsection headings to discuss multiple changes: If you arrive at the "discussion" part of the "bold, revert, discuss" (BRD) cycle, and the subject involves a number of separate changes you would like to see, try to break down the different changes, and your reasons and reliable sources for each one, under separate subsection headings (===Example===). Mixing it all into one long post complicates discussion.">Use separate subsection headings to discuss multiple changes: If you arrive at the "discussion" part of the "bold, revert, discuss" (BRD) cycle, and the subject involves a number of separate changes you would like to see, try to break down the different changes, and your reasons and reliable sources for each one, under separate subsection headings (===Example===). Mixing it all into one long post complicates discussion.
• Sign your posts. In most cases, your comments are signed automatically. for more information. To sign manually, append four tildes (~~~~), which will turn into your username and a timestamp:, continued and deliberate refusal to sign posts may result in sanctions.}} Template:Tqbm|SIG|SIGS|signature}}
• The minor flag is only for typographical corrections, formatting fixes, and similar changes that do not substantively change content.
• Use talk page permalinks to reference other editor's comments or threads on a talk page. Individual editors' comments and any thread or section title on a talk page are now permalinked as of June 2024, so even if a thread is archived, users will be able to follow it through automatic detection. This is a much better user experience than manual links to diffs of a comment.

Behavior that is unacceptable

Stay in the top three sections of this pyramid.

Please note that some of the following are of sufficient importance to be official Bharatpedia policy. Violations (and especially repeated violations) may lead to the offender being blocked or banned from editing Bharatpedia.

• Personal attacks. This includes:
  • Insults: Do not make ad hominem attacks, such as calling someone an idiot or a fascist. Instead, explain what is wrong with an edit and how to fix it.
  • Personal threats: For example, threatening people with "admins [you] know" or with having them banned for disagreeing with you. However, explaining to an editor the consequences of violating Bharatpedia policies, like being blocked for vandalism, is not considered a threat.
  • Legal threats: Threatening a lawsuit is highly disruptive to Bharatpedia for reasons given at Bharatpedia:No legal threats.
  • Posting other editors' personal details: A user who maliciously posts what they believe are the personal details of another user without that user's consent may be blocked for any length of time, including indefinitely.
• Misrepresenting other people: The record should accurately show significant exchanges that have taken place and in the correct context. This usually means:
  • Being precise in quoting others.
  • When referencing other people's contributions or edits, use "diffs". The advantage of diffs in referring to a comment is that the diff will always remain the same, even when a talk page gets archived or a comment gets changed.
  • Generally, do not alter others' comments, including signatures. Exceptions to this are described in the next section.
• Asking for another's personal details.
• Attempting to impersonate another editor.
• Claiming to be an administrator or to have an access level that you do not have. User access levels can always be verified at Special:ListUsers.
• <span id="Using the talk page as a forum for discussing the topic, or as a soapbox for promoting your views. The talk page is for discussing how to improve the article, not venting your feelings about it.">Using the talk page as a forum for discussing the topic, or as a soapbox for promoting your views. The talk page is for discussing how to improve the article, not venting your feelings about it.
• Violating the policy on biographies of living persons, particularly through unsourced or poorly sourced information.

Editing others' comments

"BP:TPO" redirects here. For talk page order, see Bharatpedia:Talk page layout § Lead (bannerspace).

It is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards, so there is no need to copy edit others' posts. Doing so can be irritating. The basic rule, with exceptions outlined below, is not to edit or remove others' posts without their permission.

Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page. Removing others' comments is prohibited, except on one's own user talk page or if the comments violate scenarios outlined above.

<span id="Striking out text with <s>...</s> or {{strike}} or marking text as deleted with <del>...</del> constitutes a change in meaning. It should be done only by the user who wrote it, or as otherwise provided in this talk page guideline.">Striking out text with <s>...</s> or {{strike}} or marking text as deleted with <del>...</del> constitutes a change in meaning. It should be done only by the user who wrote it, or as otherwise provided in this talk page guideline.

<span id="You should generally not break up another editor's text by interleaving or interpolating your own replies to individual points. This causes confusion with who said what and obscures the original editor's intent. In your own posts, you may wish to use the {{Talk quote inline}} or {{Talk quote block}} templates to quote others' posts.">You should generally not break up another editor's text by interleaving or interpolating your own replies to individual points. This causes confusion with who said what and obscures the original editor's intent. In your own posts, you may wish to use the {{Talk quote inline}} or {{Talk quote block}} templates to quote others' posts.

Cautiously editing or removing another editor's comments is sometimes allowed, but normally you should stop if there is any objection. If you make anything more than minor changes, it is good practice to leave a short explanatory note such as "[potential libel removed by ~~~~]".

Examples of appropriately editing others' comments

• With their permission, such as by invocation of mutual withdrawal or an invitation to modify their comment.
• Restoration: to restore comments vandalized or accidentally edited or deleted by others.
• Removing prohibited material such as libel; legal threats; personal details; content that is illegal under Indian law; or violations of copyright, living persons, or anti-promotional policies.
• Removing harmful posts, including personal attacks, trolling, and vandalism. This generally does not extend to messages that are merely uncivil; deletions of simple invective are controversial. Posts that might be considered disruptive in various ways are another borderline case and are usually best left as-is or archived.
• Off-topic posts: Your idea of what is off topic might differ from what others think is off topic, so be sure to err on the side of caution.
  • Collapse: If a discussion goes off topic (per § How to use article talk pages), you can hide it using {{Collapse top}}/{{Collapse bottom}} or similar templates. This normally has the effect of ending the off-topic discussion while allowing people to read it by pressing the "show" link. Involved parties must not use these templates to end a discussion over the objections of other editors.
  • Move: At times, it might make sense to move off-topic posts to a more appropriate talk page. Another form of refactoring is to move a thread of entirely personal commentary between two editors to the talk page of the editor who started the off-topic discussion. You can use the {{Moved from}} template to denote the original source of the content.
  • Delete: It is common to simply delete gibberish, test edits, harmful or prohibited material (as described above), and comments or discussion clearly about the article's subject itself (as opposed to comments and discussion about the treatment of the subject in the article).
• Moving edits to closed discussions: A discussion which has been closed with the {{subst:Archive}} or similar template is intended to be preserved as-is and should not be edited. Subsequent edits inside of an archive box should not be removed for this sole reason, but editors are allowed to move them below the box to preserve the integrity of the closed discussion.
• Signature cleanup: If a comment is unsigned, you can find the editor who posted it from the page history and append attribution to it, typically using {{subst:Unsigned}}. (This does not apply to RfC statements, which don't need to be signed.) Only if a signature violates the guidelines and policies for signatures, you can edit it to the standard form — {{subst:User|USERNAME}} TIMESTAMP (UTC) or some even simpler variant. If it contains a coding error, you can fix it yourself or ask the editor to fix the problem in their preferences.
• Fixing format errors that render material difficult to read. In this case, restrict the edits to formatting changes only and preserve the content as much as possible. Examples include:
  • Fixing indentation levels
  • Removing bullets from discussions that are not consensus polls or requests for comment (RfC)
  • Fixing list markup (to avoid disruption of screen readers, for instance)
  • Using <syntaxhighlight>, <code>, <nowiki> and other technical markup to fix code samples
  • Providing wikilinks if it helps in better navigation
  • Adding {{Reflist-talk}} or {{Sources-talk}} to emit references and notes immediately instead of at the end of the page.
• Fixing layout errors, such as:
  • Moving a new discussion from the top of a page to the bottom
  • Moving a comment for chronological order within a reply sequence
  • Correcting unclosed markup tags that mess up the page's formatting
  • Accurately replacing HTML table code with a wikitable
  • Fixing other lint errors.
• Sectioning: If a discussion has developed new subjects or has become very long, it might be desirable to split it into separate discussions with their own headings or subheadings. When splitting or moving topics, you can note the changes using the {{Moved to}} and {{Moved from}} templates on both locations. While some reformatting might be necessary to maintain the sense of the discussion and preserve attribution, it is essential that the meaning of any comments isn't altered.
• Removing duplicate sections: Where an editor has inadvertently saved the same new section or comment twice. Note: this does not mean people who repeat a point deliberately.
• Fixing links to discussions or pages that have been archived or moved, if they are broken due to typos or they unintentionally point to a disambiguation page, etc. Do not change links to go to entirely different pages; if in doubt as to whether a destination is entirely different, you can obtain permission from the editor or ask them to update their own comment. Only fix a link to a template that has been deleted or deprecated if the effect of the new template is essentially the same as what the editor used; otherwise, allow the comment to red link to the old template, as a broken post is preferable to one with altered meaning. Internal links made using full URLs may be converted to wikilinks or protocol-relative URLs by dropping the part before the "//", so that they will work across protocols (http:// vs. https://) .
• Hiding or resizing images: You can resize images if they take up too much space and, once discussion of them has ended, you can hide them. (For example, "warning" icons in bot-posted notices.) Non-free images must always be hidden, even if they're being discussed. You can hide images by adding a colon: [[File:Foo.png|...]] to [[:File:Foo.png|...]]).
• Deactivating templates, categories, and interlanguage links: You are allowed to prevent templates from being transcluded (e.g., change {{Template name}} to {{t|Template name}}) if the poster clearly intended to discuss the template rather than use it. You are allowed to deactivate category links (e.g., change [[Category:Foobar]] to [[:Category:Foobar]] by inserting a colon) to prevent the page being inappropriately added to a discussed category. You are allowed to deactivate interlanguage links (e.g., change [[it:Foobar]] to [[:it:Foobar]] by inserting a colon) when the link to a page on another language's Bharatpedia is meant to appear inline rather than to serve as an interlanguage link for the page.
• Collapsing large code samples after discussion of the sample has ended, such as fulfilled edit requests.
• Responding within review comments: Peer reviews, good article reviews, and featured article candidates are collaborative processes in which a reviewer might provide a list of comments on an article; most editors expect the responses to be interspersed among these comments.
• Removing empty edit requests that lack a clear description of the requested change. Consider notifying the user by placing {{subst:Empty edit request}} on their talk page.
• Comments made by blocked sockpuppets of users editing in violation of a block or ban can be struck through or removed from open discussions. Editors are allowed to simply remove comments made by a sock with no replies, with an appropriate edit summary. If comments are part of an active discussion, they should be struck instead of removed, along with a short explanation following the stricken text or at the bottom of the thread. Striking comments in discussions that have been closed or archived is not allowed. Users may also remove some content in archiving. The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user; this is true whether the removal was manual or automatic, and includes both registered and unregistered users. Note that deleted comments can always be retrieved from the page's history, as user talk pages are almost never deleted (although a courtesy blanking may be requested).

There are certain types of notices that users may not remove from their own talk pages, such as declined unblock requests and speedy deletion tags.

Talk page search

You can use the search box below to locate Talk pages. See Help:Searching for more information.

See also

• Etiquette (how to be nice)
• Mutual withdrawal (essay regarding a method which two editors can agree to withdraw their recent comments)
• Responding to threats of harm (treat all claims seriously)
• Talk dos and don'ts (summary of policies of guidelines)
• Talk page layout (lead "bannerspace", table of contents, and discussions)
• Talk page templates (how to use the banners)
• Using talk pages (how talk pages work)
• OrphanTalk (find orphaned talk pages)