Ajay Kumar: Add new article

2023-07-23T16:20:42Z

Add new article

New page

{{WikiProject India|class=Start|importance=Low|assess-date=|punjab=y}}
{{WikiProject Human Genetic History|class=Start}}
{{Gs/talk notice|sasg}}

== Ahluwalia caste ==

There are many gotras under Ahluwalia caste and all them are not Kalals, as it's name was also a misl. So considering each Ahluwalia as Kalal/outcaste is wrong. [[User:GurSikh123|GurSikh123]] ([[User talk:GurSikh123|talk]]) 05:27, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

== Ahluwalia caste ==

I have read eveyhwere on Every site and books that ahluwalias originally belonged to the kalal caste. None of my ahluwalia friends accepted that they are Jat.. please confirm. [[User:Garimattttttt|Garimattttttt]] ([[User talk:Garimattttttt|talk]]) 12:18, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Garimattt I think you belongs to a third class community.You don’t know anything about ahluwalia and I am sure you are 100 percent a karnwal or a jaiswal.You low blood thieves and stealing our proud name and the ahluwalia friends you are talking are not ahluwalias they are karnwals and jaiswala who started writing their name as ahluwalia after 1950 because they don’t have any history of their own.So u pls take the hell out of ur jaiswal ass from here — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/103.44.138.26|103.44.138.26]] ([[User talk:103.44.138.26#top|talk]]) 21:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC) 

== Ahluwalia caste ==

Mr.Utcursch is mentioning everyone from the Ahluwalia misl as kalal & even insulting each Ahluwalia gotra as outcaste, which is wrong as there are approximately 60 gotras in Ahluwalia misl & all of them are not Kalals or outcaste as it was a misl and anyone was free to join it. Please review this page again, since the same shall insult all the gotras using Ahluwalia as title who are not Kalals/outcastes. Mr.Utcursch is requested to learn more in depth about all Ahluwalia misl gotras before writing such hateful lines in the wikipedia page. Also refer to books like The Golden book of India by author Sir.Roper Lethbridge, Advanced History of the Punjab: Ranjit Singh and post Ranjit Singh period by author G.S.Chhabra, Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia by author Ganda Singh and Sikhs in the Eighteenth Century: Their Struggle for Survival and Supremacy by author Surjit Singh Gandhi to understand the ancestry of respected Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia. [[User:GurSikh123|GurSikh123]] ([[User talk:GurSikh123|talk]]) 18:10, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

: ''I'' am not mentioning anything: the source cited in the article ''[https://books.google.com/books?id=vgixwfeCyDAC&pg=PA6 The A to Z of Sikhism]'' describes the caste as "A small Sikh caste, originally Kalals or brewers of country liquor.". If you have any source that contradicts this, and asserts that the caste comprises "60 gotras", including those of non-Kalal origin, feel free to add them to the article. See [[Wikipedia:How to cite your sources]]. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 19:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Dear Utcursch, Kindly also refer to books like: The Golden book of India by author Sir.Roper Lethbridge page.233 on Kapurthala, Advanced History of the Punjab: Ranjit Singh and post Ranjit Singh period by author G.S.Chhabra, Sikhs in the Eighteenth Century: Their Struggle for Survival and Supremacy by author Surjit Singh Gandhi to understand the ancestry of respected Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia belonged to both Jat and kalal caste as mentioned in the above books or sources. [[User:GurSikh123|GurSikh123]] ([[User talk:GurSikh123|talk]]) 19:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Mr.Utcursch please read the facts about Ahluwalia caste from many sources citing Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia caste background from both Jat and kalal caste gotras. You are again requested to understand the real ancestry of respected Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia as both from Jat and kalal caste, clearly mentioned in old books like Golden book of India authored by Sir Roper Lethbridge pg.233 on Kapurthala, The Advanced history of Punjab authored by G.S.Chhabra pg.466, book Jassa Singh Ahluwalia authored by Ganda Singh pages 1-6, Sikhs in Eighteenth Century by author Surjit Singh Gandhi. Your edits are always changed for the same reason everytime by other readers. [[User:GurSikh123|GurSikh123]] ([[User talk:GurSikh123|talk]]) 17:10, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

: Before you update the article, please see [[Wikipedia:How to cite your sources]]. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 19:51, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Utcursch utcursch|talk , please read details in books by Sir Roper Lethbridge pg.233 on Kapurthala, The Advanced history of Punjab authored by G.S.Chhabra pg.466, book Jassa Singh Ahluwalia authored by Ganda Singh pages 1-6, Sikhs in Eighteenth Century by author Surjit Singh Gandhi. I hope you will clearly understand the details mentioned in it & edit information accordingly that Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia belonged to both Jat & Kalal caste. Please read in detail so that all information is written correctly. [[User:TruthfulTalk9|TruthfulTalk9]] ([[User talk:TruthfulTalk9|talk]]) 19:25, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear Utcursch,
The history has to be correctly written & you are again advised to read the book "The Advanced history of Punjab" authored by G.S.Chhabra pg.466, book "The Golden book of India" Authored by Sir Roper Lethbridge pg.233 on Kapurthala, book "Jassa Singh Ahluwalia" authored by Ganda Singh pages 1-6, book "Sikhs in Eighteenth Century" by author Surjit Singh Gandhi. Kindly note that the above sources clearly mention Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia ancestry from Jat background. [[User:GurSikh123|GurSikh123]] ([[User talk:GurSikh123|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

: Feel free to update the article with proper citations, and please don't remove existing sources. See [[Wikipedia:How to cite your sources]]. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 01:08, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello Utcursch, Sure the sources would be added & this wikipedia page on Ahluwalia caste shall be rewritten as many authors clearly mention Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia father's ancestry from Jat background(Already informed the authors to you in above talkpage) & in North India the ancestry is taken from fathers side(I hope you are aware of it). Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia was also given the title of Nawab & honored as Sultan ul Quam, so calling Ahluwalia's close to outcaste is somewhat insulting the whole Ahluwalia community. Also note that Ahluwalia name was also Misl name & anyone was free to join it. Kindly also be informed that both Mata Sundari & Nawab Kapur Singh Virk had themselves taken care of Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia since childhood & trained him to be a superior General in the Sikh forces & later he also succeeded Nawab Kapur Singh Virk as the leader of all the Misl's in Punjab. [[User:GurSikh123|GurSikh123]] ([[User talk:GurSikh123|talk]]) 18:21, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

: Regarding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ahluwalia_(caste)&diff=993446433&oldid=993233652&diffmode=source this edit], please do not remove existing sourced content. Moreover, the sources you cited do not talk about the Ahluwalia ''caste'', which is different from [[Ahluwalia (misl)]]. Also, colonial civil servants like Roper Lethbridge are not [[WP:HISTRS|acceptable sources]] for the ancestry of the rulers: their lack of objectivity and reliability has been discussed several times at [[WP:RSN]] and [[WT:IN]]. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 22:15, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

The existed content was not removed, but actually corrected. Secondly why have removed other sources saying Ahluwalia misl was started by a person who was Jat by race but his profession was distillation of wine or can you please differentiate between people from Ahluwalia caste are different from the people of Ahluwalia misl??(with the help of any written source)??
Thirdly current living His Higness of Kapurthala mention themselves as Jat and kalal to which correctly they belong to, which is clearly mentioned in the book Prince Patron Patriarch written himself by Brigadier HH Sukhjit Singh(His Highness of Kapurthala).
Fourthly you are requested not to remove any sourced information again or prove that sources are wrongly mentioned with the help of clear written sources & not discussions. [[User:GurSikh123|GurSikh123]] ([[User talk:GurSikh123|talk]]) 02:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

: A source distinguishing between the caste and the misl clearly has two separate entries on these topics: [https://books.google.ca/books?id=vgixwfeCyDAC&lpg=PA6&pg=PA6 The A to Z of Sikhism] by W. H. McLeod, page 6.
: The sources that you provide are not talking about the caste (which is what this article is referring to). Also see [[Wikipedia:Independent sources]]: Even if this article was about the misl, the claims of royal family of Kapurthala (or affiliated sources) are not acceptable sources: there are several royal houses in India claiming glorious ancestry including from gods. The Kapurthala family's claim of Rajput and Jat ancestry is already noted in the article with independent sources. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 15:10, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

There are other sources also claiming that Jassa Singh Ahluwalia is from Jat & kalal background & not only the Royal House of Kapurthala, which was clearly rewritten in the previously edited article & I repeat that you should read the quote again from the book Prince Patron and Patriarch saying or read page 7-8 from the same book 'Quote: Jassa Singh Ahluwalia came to be known as Jat Kalal to which his ancestors belonged' which clearly talks about the caste and nobody has claimed that this book is an unreliable source till date. [[User:TruthfulTalk9|TruthfulTalk9]] ([[User talk:TruthfulTalk9|talk]]) 17:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

: The article already states that "they came to be known as Jats". Ignoring the fact that the book is not an independent source (it's authored by a member of the royal house of Kapurthala), by your own admission, it refers to the Kalal ancestry, whose mention you have been removing from the article. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 15:25, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

References used from the book by WH McLeod are incorrect. First of all Ahluwalia is always written as Ahluwalia. WH McLeod’s research on Sikh History has been controversial and questioned by Sikh Scholars. WH McLeod has never used reliable sources for his book. So references from him about Sikh History are null and void. Utcursch can you please stop editing this page again and again as your actions align with Wikipedia vandalism. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:120.21.106.122|120.21.106.122]] ([[User talk:120.21.106.122#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/120.21.106.122|contribs]]) 

: Please present a [[WP:RS|reliable source]] for your claim that WH McLeod is incorrect about the Ahluwalia-Kalal connection (that's the bit you've been removing from a bunch of IP and sock accounts). Plus, the article cites [[Donald Anthony Low]] - you have been removing/editing the sentences supported by that reference as well. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 12:01, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Utcursch can you please prove the legitimacy of the information provided by the books cited by you????? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:120.21.28.113|120.21.28.113]] ([[User talk:120.21.28.113#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/120.21.28.113|contribs]]) 

: They are scholarly books written by qualified academics and published by [[WP:RS]]-compliant. If you want a third-party opinion about their reliability, feel free to drop a note at [[WP:RSN]].
: Also, at this point, your edits are introducing deliberate factual errors. For example, in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ahluwalia_(caste)&curid=62493801&diff=1021922470&oldid=1021918158&diffmode=source this edit], you replaced "brewing" with "farming", "spurious" with "Real" etc. - these changes are not at all supported by any source, cited or otherwise. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 14:02, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Refer to - the golden book of India written by Sir Roper Lethbridge page 233

No answer Utcursch ???? As expected, you only copy paste.

Repeated vandalism of this page won’t help utcursch.. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:120.21.28.113|120.21.28.113]] ([[User talk:120.21.28.113#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/120.21.28.113|contribs]]) 

: Already addressed in comment on 13 December 2020 above. Frankly, I've been very patient with your uncivil comments[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ahluwalia_(misl)&diff=1021297964&oldid=1021274681&diffmode=source][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ahluwalia_(misl)&diff=1021477070&oldid=1021401422&diffmode=source], downright misinformation (changing "spurious" with "real" etc. as mentioned above), and your constant [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nikhil448|sockpuppetry]]. So, I'm now going to block you and your sockpuppets/meatpuppets from All India Ahluwalia Mukh Sabha on sight. If you have any concerns, you can take them to [[WP:ANI]] or [[WP:RSN]]. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 16:34, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2021 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Ahluwalia (caste)|answered=yes}}
I want to edit this page with real sources. [[Special:Contributions/2402:8100:2199:B8B2:49A4:7CE7:8D35:E94A|2402:8100:2199:B8B2:49A4:7CE7:8D35:E94A]] ([[User talk:2402:8100:2199:B8B2:49A4:7CE7:8D35:E94A|talk]]) 21:37, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
: [[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate. ◎ [[User:MelecieDiancie|| melecie |]] [[User talk:MelecieDiancie|t]] 23:17, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2021 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Ahluwalia (caste)|answered=yes}}
Ahluwalia belongs to Rajput clan and not Kalal clan. Please read a book "Deeper Roots Of The Gill, Bhatti, Sidhu, Brar, Toor, and Related Jat and Rajput Clans" by Gurcharan Singh Gill found at https://www.academia.edu/1092421/Deeper_Roots_Of_The_Gill_Bhatti_Sidhu_Brar_Toor_and_Related_Jat_and_Rajput_Clans

The Ahluwalia Clan descends from Jaisal Bhatti through his son Salvihan just as Sidhu and Brar Clans
descend from Jaisal Bhatti through Memhel. They are also related to the Manj Rajputs as we will see
below. Sadhu Singh Ahluwalia was an enterprising zamindar who founded four villages near Lahore, one
of which was named Ahlu. The name Ahluwalia is derived from the name of this village. Their genealogy
is as follows. There are 20 generations from Jaisal Bhatti to Sadhu Singh Ahluwalia, the patronymic name
for the Ahluwalia clan. From father to son, these generations are: Jaisal, Salbahan, Chandar, Uchal,
Jagpal, Dhan or Dhom, Padmarth, Bhan, Bharapal, Udharan, Chandarpal, Rana Tulsi, Gaggar, Gajraj,
Salhu, Saina Singh, Badhawa Singh, Ganda Singh, and Sadhu Singh.Sadhu Singh had a son, Gopal Singh,
who had a son, Dewa Singh or Daya Singh, who had three sons, namely, Gurbakhsh Singh, Sadar Singh,
and Badar Singh, who died in 1723. His son was Sardar Jassa Singh who died in 1783. He was the most
illustrious Raja of the Ahluwalia Clan. Sada Singh had two children, Lal Singh and Mana Singh. Lal Singh
had one son, Mohar or Mahar Singh. Gurbakhsh Singh’s son was Kirpal Singh, whose son was Ladha
Singh, whose son was Sardar Bagh Singh who succeeded Jassa Singh and died in 1801. Bagh Singh’s son
was Fateh Singh who died in 1836 and left two sons, namely, Amar Singh and Raja Nihal Singh who died
in 1852 and left three sons and a daughter, namely, Raja Randhir who died in 1870; Bikrama Singh who
died in 1887; Kanwar Suchet Singh who was born in 1837; and a daughter who married Diwan Singh of
Makandpur and died in 1845. She had a son, Bhagat Singh who was born in 1845 and had a son, Gulab
Singh who was born in 1861. Gulab Singh had four sons, namely, Arjan Singh who was born in 1879;
Angad Singh who was born in 1880; Rajeshar Singh who was born in 1883; and Triloka Singh who was
born in 1885.Kanwar Suchet Singh had a son, Ranjit Singh who was born in 1883. Bikrama Singh had two
sons, Partab Singh who was born in 1871 and Daljit Singh who was born in 1879. Raja Randhir Singh died
in 1870 and had two sons, namely, Raja Kharak Singh who died in 1877, and Raja Harnam Singh who was
born in 1851. Raja Harnam Singh had six sons, namely, Raghbir Singh who was born in 1876; Maharaj
Singh who was born in 1878; Shamsher Singh who was born in 1879; Rajinder Singh who was born in
1883; Inderjit Singh who was born in 1884; and Dalip Singh who was born in 1885. Raja Kharak Singh had
a son, Raja Jagat Jit Singh who was born in 1872 and he had four sons, namely, Tikka Paramjit Singh who
was born on 18th March 1892; Kanwar Mahijit Singh who was born on 9th of May 1898; Kanwar Amar Jit
Singh who was born on 4th of August 1894; and Kanwar Karam Jit Singh who was born on 9th of June
1896. [[User:Arman45458383|Arman45458383]] ([[User talk:Arman45458383|talk]]) 19:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{tlx|edit semi-protected}} template. [[User talk:Melmann|Melmann]] 21:16, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2022 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Ahluwalia (caste)|answered=yes}}
[[User:Harry walia69|Harry walia69]] ([[User talk:Harry walia69|talk]]) 21:52, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
{{short description|Indian caste}}
'''Ahluwalia''' (also transliterated as '''Ahluvalia''') is an [[Indian caste system|Indian caste]] native to the [[Punjab (India)|Punjab]] region.<ref name="WHMcLeod_2009"/><ref name="Paramjit_2015"/>

The Ahluwalias originally belonged to the jatt caste, whose traditional occupation was farming [[country liquor]].<ref name="WHMcLeod_2009"/><ref name="Paramjit_2015">{{cite journal |author=Paramjit S. Judge |title=Caste Hierarchy, Dominance, and Change in Punjab |journal=Sociological Bulletin |volume=64 |issue=1 |year=2015 |page=62 |publisher=Sage |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/26290720 |quote=Ahluwalias, formerly known by the name of Kalal, are a caste of liquor distillers. At present, they are upper caste without any traditional stigma. }}</ref> The jatts held a high status in the traditional caste hierarchy, close to the [[Rajputs]].<ref name="WHMcLeod_2009"/><ref name="Dev_1961">{{cite journal |author=Dev Raj Chanana |title=Sanskritisation, Westernisation and India's North-West |journal=The Economic Weekly |volume=VIII |issue=9 |date=1961-03-04 |url=https://www.epw.in/system/files/pdf/1961_13/9/sanskritisation_westernisation_and_india_s_northwest.pdf |page=410 |quote=The Ahluwalias had a very low social status as they engaged in the distillation and sale of liquor. Their professional name was Kalal. [...] They got the chance to improve their social status, when one of their castes was able to carve out the state of Kapurthala for himself. The entire community then laid claim to the title of Kshatriyas...".}}</ref> In the 18th century, the Sikh chief [[Jassa Singh Ahluwalia]], who belonged to the Kalal caste, adopted the surname "Ahluwalia" after the name of his ancestral village. His descendants became the ruling dynasty of the [[Kapurthala State]]. In the late 19th century, other Kalals also adopted the Ahluwalia identity, as part of a [[Sanskritisation]] process to improve their social status, resulting in the formation of the Ahluwalia caste.<ref name="WHMcLeod_2009">{{cite book |author=W. H. McLeod |title=The A to Z of Sikhism |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vgixwfeCyDAC&pg=PA6 |year=2009 |publisher=Scarecrow Press |isbn=978-0-8108-6344-6 |page=6 }}</ref> They gave up their traditional occupations, as they gained political power and as the [[British Raj|colonial British]] administration started regulating distribution and sale of liquor.<ref name="Donald_1968">{{cite book |author=Donald Anthony Low |title=Soundings in Modern South Asian History |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=WfD02m8q8eYC&pg=PA70 |year=1968 |publisher=University of California Press |pages=70–71 |oclc=612533097 }}</ref> This attempt was successful, and the Ahluwalias came to be considered equal to the high-ranked [[Khatri]]s in the caste hierarchy.<ref name="WHMcLeod_2009"/> The Kalals took up new occupations, and in particular, a large number of Ahluwalias served in the army.<ref name="Donald_1968"/>

Some of the Ahluwalias further tried to enhance their social status by claiming [[Khatri]] or [[Rajput]] descent.<ref name="Donald_1968"/> For example, a legendary account traces the ancestry of the Kapurthala royal family to the Bhatti Rajput royal family of [[Jaisalmer State|Jaisalmer]] (and ultimately to [[Krishna]] through [[Shalivahana|Salibahan]]). According to this narrative, a group of Bhattis migrated to Punjab, where they came to be known as [[Jats]], and became Sikhs. The account states that Sadho Singh and his four sons married into Kalal families, because of which the family came to be known as Ahluwalia.<ref name="Ganda_1990">{{cite book |author=Ganda Singh |title=Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=f4ZHAAAAMAAJ |year=1990 |publisher=Punjabi University |pages=1–4 }}</ref> [[Lepel Griffin]] (1873), a British administrator who wrote on the history of Punjab's rulers, dismissed this account connecting the Ahluwalias to the Jaisalmer royal family as spurious.<ref name="Ganda_1990"/> The Sikh author Gian Singh, in his ''[[Twarikh Guru Khalsa|Twarikh Raj Khalsa]]'' (1894), noted that the Ahluwalia family had adopted the Kalal caste identity much before Sadho Singh.<ref>{{cite book |author=M. L. Ahluwalia|title=Land marks in Sikh history |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=1DduAAAAMAAJ |year=1996 |publisher=Ashoka International |page=37 }}</ref>

Most of the Ahluwalias follow either [[Sikhism]] or [[Hinduism]].<ref name="WHMcLeod_2009"/><ref>{{cite book |author=Jogindra Singh Gandhi |title=Lawyers and Touts: A Study in the Sociology of Legal Profession |url=https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Lawyers_and_Touts/FGmPAAAAMAAJ |publisher=Hindustan |year=1982 |page=64 |quote=Ahluwalia are bi-religious, having both Hindu and Sikh members }}</ref>
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 21:54, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

== References ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Indian castes]]
[[Category:Brewing and distilling castes]]
[[Category:Social groups of Punjab, India]]

Talk:Ahluwalia (caste) - Revision history

Ajay Kumar: Add new article